“Was Looking For Ways To Get Out of This Ghetto…” Busting Two of the Three Top Myths of Stan Lee

There are many myths about Stan Lee and his origins, perpetuated and regurgitated to the point of nauseum. Today we’re just going to tackle two of the top three of those myths that anyone reading this site is surely familiar with, for a specific and very important purpose.

In an earlier article I pointed out how flimsy Lee’s reasons and excuses had been throughout the years in regard to him being “too busy” to write full scripts (therefore necessitating the creation of the Marvel Method system) as well as the crux of the entire big bang of Marvel Comics as we know it today: that Lee was going to quit before being urged by his wife to do it his way.

This is all utter nonsense and easily exposed as throwaway answers to journalists too enamored, too taken in by the grandiose and pleasing tall tale to really look closer, dig deeper, and recognize that the truth was lying there all along, and in plain sight.

Stan Lee was not too busy. Ever.

He was going into the offices only three days a week- later two– and literally handled no administrative or managerial duties in his role.

Stan Lee was never going to quit. Ever. He had attempted numerous times to get out of his relative Martin Goodman’s comic division and branch out on his own; each and every time was a failure. He had an expensive lifestyle that was enabled by his cushy position and the security that being related to the owner all but guaranteed.

We’re going to examine the facts behind Stan Lee’s trajectory and see, once and for all, that the repeated claims of Lee and Marvel simply cannot hold up in the face of overwhelming evidence.

What has genuinely amazed me several times over the years is how several outspoken advocates and defenders of Lee often unintentionally make the case against him.

Whether it’s Jim Shooter revealing that he plotted Lee’s Silver Surfer stories from the Sixties or Jim Salicrup admitting he impersonated Lee’s voice for an exclusive web series advertised as Lee himself- these guys frequently just shine the light more and more on how little Lee contributed, and how much Lee took credit for doing absolutely no work at all outside of lending his name and likeness.

In 2017, researcher Ger Apeldoorn wrote an exhaustive and comprehensive article chronicling Lee’s fruitless attempts to make something on his own and break away from Goodman. That article, titled “Get Me Out of Here!” appeared in the January 2018 issue of Alter Ego magazine, which was dedicated to Lee’s 95th Birthday.

I know that Apeldoorn is a respected historian and I agree that it’s somewhat deserved; he doesn’t speculate and position his guesswork as gospel; Michael J Vassallo, whom I hold in high regard, considers him a friend. And yet, Apeldoorn joins the ranks of unintentional exposers of the Lee myth in this article which I will therefore quote extensively from, which I guess makes me a bit like Lee: someone else did the heavy lifting so that I don’t have to. Thanks Ger.

• Pg. 21– “So it’s no surprise that, over at Goodman’s, editor Stan Lee was looking for ways to get out of this ghetto…”

Apeldoorn establishes the dreary era the comic book industry is in during the mid-Fifties before we get to that telling sentence quoted above. Due to the rise of the Comics Code, many publishers have closed outright so the tone of the article is to set the motivation for Lee’s attempts to break away and stand on his own two feet.

• Pg. 21– “Jaffee: I remember all the efforts Stan Lee made to spread his talents into media outside of comic magazines…”

Apeldoorn also points out that, unlike Lee, Al Jaffee succeeded in selling his strip Tall Tales to the Herald Tribune Syndicate where it ran on weekdays and Sundays for five years. I find that significant as it suggests (to me) that it was also simply a matter of talent, perhaps- I don’t mean that to be mean-spirited. Jaffee’s experience might have been due to circumstance, but his is proof that the comic strip market wasn’t completely barren in the Fifties.

• Pg. 21– “To sell his newspaper strip ideas, Stan Lee first persuaded Martin Goodman to create a separate division of his Magazine Enterprises, in order to exploit the talent and material available to the company through the comics division….”

I found this stunning to learn: essentially, Lee convinced Goodman to set up another division entirely just to help Lee out. Did Goodman know Lee’s intention was to leave his employ? Or… does this suggest that the legends about Lee leaving were just that? Lee was never going to quit working for Goodman- but that wasn’t stopping him from trying to create further success for himself using Goodman’s resources.

• Pg. 21– “And, to sell those, he looked up comic strip agent Toni Mendez.”

• Pg. 22– “When Stan Lee contacted her in 1956… she already had an impressive client list, which included Steve Canyon artist Milton Canniff.”

• Pg. 22– “Although the personal collection of Stan Lee himself is at Wyoming University and many of the rarities there were covered by Danny Fingeroth and Roy Thomas in their 2011 TwoMorrows volume The Stan Lee Universe, the correspondence and samples in the Toni Mendez Collection often show a completely different and sometimes more desperate view of Lee’s efforts to find something better to do with his life than write and edit comic books all day.”

I don’t find it surprising that Fingeroth and Thomas decided not to include the correspondence with Mendez. Mendez was a very impressive lady that had started out as a Rockette and worked as an agent well into her nineties; most notably she ended up in a lawsuit with Lee due to his shady business practices, much like others would with POW! Entertainment over five decades later. She was not someone especially taken with Stan Lee as their creative relationship evolved.

• Pg. 22– “It seems the first strip he tried to sell was a soap-opera concept called Clay Murdock, V.P., with art by Vince Colletta…”

• Pg. 22– “Unfortunately, they did not think the theme of the proposed strip fit into the Sun-Times program.”

• Pg. 22– “Next, Mendez sent the proposal to Harold Anderson of Publishers Syndicate. Anderson was less enthusiastic.”

• Pg. 22– “And indeed, Saunders didn’t like the strip as it was…”

• Pg. 23– “On December 26, 1956, Clay Murdock was sent again, But it was to no avail. They replied quickly and shortly that the strip did not “fit into our picture.” After one more try, to the Chicago Tribune-New York News Syndicate, the idea was dropped.”

A pattern is developed of consistent rejections. Apeldoorn displays why he’s a flawed historian when he jovially theorizes how interesting it would have been had Lee develop a connection between Clay Murdock and Daredevil years later, sigh.

I’d like to also point out that rejections during this time period do not necessarily mean that Lee is at fault or without the required talent to write a gag strip; surely the syndicates and industry of the time was fraught with tension and indecision. But it’s again another sign of how unremarkable Lee’s career was both pre and post Kirby.

• Pg. 24– “In Toni Mendez’s correspondence we can follow the rise and fall of Stan Lee’s first outing as a newspaper strip creator.”

• Pg. 24– “Accompanying that letter was a long and detailed critique by George Frickel of the Cub Scouting Services; the letter was addressed to his offices at Timely, indicating that all of these extracurricular activities were done through or with the help of Martin Goodman’s Magazine Enterprises, even though none of the later contracts describes any sort of payment to anyone but the writer and artist.”

Keep in mind I’m providing excerpts of the overall article; we learn how many syndicate heads and managers simply dislike Lee’s pitches and submissions. Lee hatches the idea to do a cub scouts related strip which will be a source of various ups and downs- I also found it telling that Lee continues to use Goodman’s support and resources but takes all of the expected rewards. Contrast that with Lee betraying the Goodman family a little under two decades after this period.

• Pg. 26– “I don’t know if Stan Lee ever got to visit the headquarters of the BSA in New Jersey, but he can’t have been too thrilled that so many people were willing to “give comments.”

• Pg. 26– “Comic historians should note that Lee is listed everywhere as the artist, even though it seems the samples did have a credit for Joe Maneely as well. That is how it went in those days, folks. Most people could not be bothered to see the difference.”

Yes, that’s also how it is today, folks. Especially when it comes to Stan the Man. Apeldoorn shrugs off what is already an early and blatant maneuvering of Lee to come off as the sole talent behind the piece with a “most people could not be bothered” excuse.

• Pg. 27– “As was to be expected, King Features passed…”

• Pg. 27– “He also gave his telephone number at Magazine Enterprises, where he could be called any weekday except Wednesdays and weekends, when he was at home. Apparently, even back in the ’50s, Stan held one day a week aside to write his scripts…”

We’ll discuss the cushy work week schedule of Lee later on.

• Pg. 27– “Even before the contracts were signed, Sun-Times representatives shopped the new strip around. The first reactions weren’t encouraging.”

• Pg. 27– “The second (representative) was so down on the project that he needed a private peptalk. Smith’s main problem seemed to be that he couldn’t sell the strip because it wasn’t really clear at whom it was aimed.”

• Pg. 28– “Still, the Chicago Sun-Times was committed, and the launch was on its way. Too bad neither the Philadelphia Bulletin nor the Philadelphia Daily News liked the strip.”

Lee gets his cub scout strip into the Chicago Sun-Times at least. There’s also a fantastic letter in Mendez’s archives that Lee wrote, asking her for help with getting the Sun-Times to compensate him for travel expenses when he and Maneely travelled to Chicago to meet with representatives, and I’m amazed at how cheap Lee is:

“Finally, I’d appreciate your mentioning the cost of the plane tix to Chicago for Joe and myself. They totaled $195.20! Insamuch as Joe is kinda broke, I footed the entire bill. Now, if we are EXPECTED to pay for it, ok- I’ll say no more about it. But it seems to me that since Bob ASKED us to come- and he told me, when we left, that he was grateful that we came because it saved HIM the trouble of flying to New York- I’d imagine it’s reasonably fair to assume the Syndicate would pay for the flight. I’d like to know definitively, because if they DON’T pay for it, I wouldn’t be so anxious to oblige in the future! Thanx.” – Stan Lee “Expenses” letter to Toni Mendez, January 7th, 1958

You’ve got to love how Lee stresses that Joe Maneely is just too broke, so loyal ol’ Stan has to do him a solid and buy his ticket. It’s amazing to me just how much Lee wanted to break into the comic strip market, just to complain about travel expenses for a necessary business meeting when a syndicate finally accepted the strip!

• Pg. 30– “Stan was collecting all the positive letters he could find and sending them on to the syndicate through Mendez. Even though the name of the letter-writers may sound a little bit familiar to us.”

Got to respect the hustle as Lee provides obviously faked letters of support from Artie Simek’s daughter and comic artist Peter Morisi.

• Pg. 31– “Around that same time, Stan had a new idea. Unsatisfied with the progress Bringen was making, he apparently had his wife call Boy Scout Council leaders; and, in a letter to Robert Cooper, he asserted it was her idea (which it may or may not have been.)”

• Pg. 31– “Altho’ the Scouts themselves feel they can’t make such phone calls to local councils, there’s no reason JOAN can’t do it!”

Joan Lee then proceeds to call and write numerous council leaders in New York, Philadelphia, Boston and other markets.

• Pg. 33– “On November 12, 1958 the axe fell. “Effective with the daily release of December 27th and the Sunday release of December 21, we will discontinue Mrs. Lyons’ Cubs.”

• Pg. 34– “A year later, Toni Mendez would have her own financial problems with Stan Lee, and that time she would not be so accommodating.”

Apeldoorn then covers numerous other pitches that Lee apparently conceived of but were all met with rejection: For the Love of Linda, Art Script, Captions Courageous, Li’l Repute, and many more that I’m sick of transcribing. Most of these are simply Lee adding dialogue to existing photographs in the fumetti style, or soap opera strips. Interestingly, no unique characters are pitched by Lee like the ones he’d later claim to create a few years later.

But still- the sheer number of outright rejections are staggering. When you tally them up, it’s apparent that Lee was never going to be able to quit Goodman’s company. Where would he go? What skills, what prospects did he really have?

• Pg. 39– “His answer (when the package was returned on May 6) was a decidedly unchuckling “I am sorry, but I think this is simply not for us.”

• Pg. 39– “On May 15 it was sent to the Grayson Publishing Corporation. They must have declined within a week…”

• Pg. 42– “The response was mixed, as usual. King Features rejected it outright…”

• Pg. 49– “But it was all for nothing. In early 1961 the curtain fell for Willie Lumpkin.”

Yes, Lee doesn’t lack in ambition but he’s lacking in a spark of some sort. Luckily for him, Jack Kirby could generate more than enough for an entire company.

But the pattern is established. And allow me to clarify, these excerpts I’ve cited are by no means all of the failures of Lee that Apeldoorn covers. There are so many more that it’s tiring. Coloring books, humor mags, you name it- he also covers Lee’s attempts at self-publishing, which ties into the next myth, much to my surprise. The point of presenting this? Stan Lee was extremely unlikely to quit. All of his attempts- even with Goodman’s support- failed.

Sol Brodsky was the man who was “too busy.”

All of the things that reporters likely subconsciously processed and assumed on when Lee would explain he couldn’t write full scripts due to his various and demanding responsibilities are literally what Sol Brodsky actually did do at Marvel.

As Production Manager, it was Brodsky that handled pay vouchers for the freelance artists. It was Brodsky that dealt with the printers, that handled scheduling, and so forth. So why don’t more people talk about Sol Brodsky?

• “(When Brodsky returned to Marvel in the 70s‘): Stan, for his friend, kind of went out and hired Sol for administrative stuff that Stan didn’t want to do. He’d do administrative stuff…” – Jim Shooter, 2015

Brodsky had started out working for Fox Features and Archie Comics in the Forties before finally landing at Timely and working for Goodman around 1948. As Brodsky came up in the industry apprenticing in various departments, he was well versed in all components of comic book production, becoming invaluable to Lee. Remember how I said that Lee’s attempts to self-publish tied into this next part? I was surprised to read the following:

• “Stan was publishing a number of magazines, among them GOLFER’S ANONYMOUS, BLUSHING BLURBS, THE EXECUTIVE’S ABC DOODLE BOOK and THE SECRETS BEHIND THE COMICS, some of which were sold by mail order. Stan knew of no better man to put in charge of production of these books than Sol Brodsky.” – Marvel Age Magazine #22, 1984

I was flabbergasted to discover that even with those attempts at doing it for himself, Lee relied on others to do the heavy lifting.

Consider how busy Stan Lee really was. He’s already not going to the office five days a week, as illustrated by this exchange from a notable (and sometimes leading) interview with Roy Thomas from 1998:

Roy: “When I came aboard in mid-’65, you were coming into the office only two or three days a week. Was it because it was getting too busy?”

Stan: “That’s a little bit of a story: A few years before that, I was doing so much writing and I couldn’t finish it in the office, so I said to Martin, “I have to have one day a week off to get my writing done.” So he said okay, and I took Wednesday off because it was right in the middle of the week and it broke it off into two two-day weeks.

Then, as I got more and more into writing, I said to Joan, “I’m gonna ask him for another day off.” She said, “You can’t do that! How can you have the nerve to ask for two days a week off and he’s paying you a weekly salary?” Hey, the only thing he can do is say no. So I asked him, and he must have had a good golf game that day, and he said okay. I took off Tuesdays and Thursdays.

Then I still seemed to feel that I had too much writing to do, so I said to Joan, “I’m going to ask him if I can take Monday, Wednesday, and Friday off!” She said, “Stan, I’m going to head for the hills! Nobody can ask for something like that!” I said, “Hey, what can I lose?” And he actually said okay! So there was a time when I came in Tuesdays and Thursdays.” – Stan ‘Too Busy’ Lee, coming in two days a week

It’s because Jack Kirby produced completed stories for Lee to dialogue on- often based on Kirby’s helpful margin notes- that Lee excelled during this period. But it’s also because Sol Brodsky enabled Lee to do that by basically doing what Lee is always credited as doing: basically running the Marvel Bullpen.

• “Sol and I were the whole staff of Atlas Comics. I bought the art and scripts, and Sol did all the production. My job was mainly talking to the artists and writers and telling them how I wanted the stuff done. Sol did everything else- the corrections, making sure everything looked right, making sure things went to the engraver and he also talked to the printer. He was really the production manager.” – Stan Lee

• “Sol had this rare ability to come in to a department and quickly learn how to run everything. It was an extra thing he had. He had to deal with creative people, printers and later on, corporate heads and outside clients. And he did it well.” – Stan Goldberg

• “When Sol came on, he took over all the traffic responsibilities and dealing with the printers. Stan and Sol would discuss who would get what art assignments. They would all go into Stan’s office and discuss the plots and act them out… Sol was really important because he really set the tone for the place.”– Flo Steinberg

I was impressed to discover, per a recollection from Dick Giordano, that when the Atlas implosion initially happened, Brodsky took it upon himself to work as an unpaid agent of sorts for artists like Gene Colan and others, facilitating work at Charlton and other surviving publishers. Contrast that with Lee having his secretary contact freelancers to inform them that production was suspended, only to contact them years later when he needed them.

• “The job of the Production Manager then was everything that didn’t have to do with editing. I handled the editing and the art direction, and Sol did everything else.”– Stan Lee (emphasis Stan’s)

• “I remember Sol was a man Stan could trust to do the job. Sol was the Production Manager and his job was to make sure the comics got out on time. And he did.” – Roy Thomas

• “It was interesting. Stan was Sol’s superior, and yet, when the schedule dictated it, Sol would go to Stan and say, ‘This has to be done by tomorrow morning’ or ‘This has to be done by Monday morning.’– John Romita Sr.

• “And, as Production Manager, who handled all the vouchers back then…” – Roy Thomas

• “Sol was the one you dealt with most. If you had troubles, he’d try to help. If there was a voucher problem or if you were short of money, and the company could find a way out of the problem for you, Sol was the guy who could do it…” – John Romita Sr.

• “Why was he (Sol) doing administrative work? It’s because Len (Wein) didn’t want to do it. Marv (Wolfman) didn’t want to do it. Gerry wasn’t there long enough. Archie (Goodwin) didn’t want to do it. So, Sol was filling the vacuum there and taking care of stuff that nobody else was willing to do. Sol took over things that the editor-in-chief should have been doing.
  …what he seemed to do was handle Stan’s affairs. Everything that was legal, financial, technical, or complicated, Stan would hand off to Sol.” – Jim Shooter, 2015 (…and here, Shooter reveals that nearly every other EiC at Marvel couldn’t be bothered to do, you know, normal work duties)

Also, please allow me to stress! That I am NOT saying that Lee is doing nothing. He is indeed editing and interacting with artists and such. That is not the point of this article, that is not the question I am asking.

I am specifically asking what Lee was doing otherwise that would make him “too busy” to write full scripts– nothing more.

We know he didn’t do administrative or managerial work. We know he came into the office either two or three days a week. Still with me? Great. If all he is devoting his time to is writing and editing, why is he still too busy to write full scripts? Go ahead, throw it at me.

Now, I recognize that it might seem as if I’m padding this article out with quotes, real frantic ones. But that’s not my intention.

I genuinely just mean to present the case against Stan Lee either being in a position to quit or being too busy to really write scripts. (I am willing to correct this piece if anyone can answer sufficiently to explain why he was too busy.)

You’ve seen excerpts of multiple rejections. You’ve seen proof that Sol Brodsky did the actual managerial/administrative duties at Marvel. You’ve seen Lee’s own account of how he finangled a mere two day work week from his employer.

So, you tell me. Was Stan Lee really going to quit in 1961? (and, if so, to go where? to do what?) Was Stan Lee really too busy to write? Or is it that the general consensus is based upon, relies upon the collective tapestry of the public subconscious, itself informed by hearsay and partial knowledge? Only fragments of history, said in passing, fueling the shared exchange of popular stories and pleasant illusions.

A figurehead, especially one that is beloved, can be difficult to remove. But protecting that figurehead out of misplaced sentimentalism only serves to unjustly deny proper credit to those that actually toiled in the fields and got their hands dirty.

The evidence has always been there. Put it together and it tells the truth, no matter how uncomforting that truth has always been.

(With thanks to Michael Hill, Jim Shooter, Ronin Ro, Jim Spurgeon, and countless others who chronicled decades of statements whether intentionally or not!)