“One of The Hard Lessons The Comics Industry Has Taught Me is That EVERYONE LIES SOMETIME…”- on Tony Isabella and The Continued Irrational Defense of “Not In The Room”

• “…but remember this, ultimately we weren’t there and to make a supposition that you have that absolute knowledge is dangerous at best.”, Daniel Best, 2011

• “Unfortunately, lying to yourself does not protect you from people who are good at reasoning.” – Professor David Pinsof, Feb 2024

It seems I have to, unexpectedly, touch upon the words and thought process of outspoken comics veteran Tony Isabella– a figure covered here once before as I examined his selective approach to injustice and how he rationalized which conservative(s) to direct his ire towards.

I was slightly reluctant then as I am now to offer my justified and fair criticism of Isabella’s prolific (and public) statements, such as I really do admire and respect his long and sincere history of speaking out against all manners of right-wing oppression, homophobia and racism in our modern culture. But that’s just it. The traits of Tony Isabella that make him justifiably admirable are also what make his more disappointing decisions all the more cringe-worthy.

That being said, we will really use Isabella as an example of a long generating and long running trope within comics fandom, used to rationalize sentimental narratives from fragile or/and compromised minds to justify myths they dearly need to preserve, even in the face of fairly solid evidence to the contrary: this trope being the oft-recurring “you weren’t there/not in the room/weren’t in the room” justification, almost solely used in the ongoing discussion over who created what in the Marvel Universe.

I was provoked to touch upon this simply by stumbling across a recent blog entry from August 13th by Mr. Isabella where, I believe, he is touching upon the extremely heavy pushback that Roy Thomas has received from both the industry and from fandom in response to his general vile behavior as credit thief and disparager of the deceased.

And let me tell you frantic ones, at this point in the juncture, it takes a lot to surprise me. But Isabella did- for reasons clearly shown in this excerpt below from the aforementioned blog entry:

Allow me to begin by touching upon Isabella’s statement that he was “someone who WAS IN THE ROOM for at least some of these events…“, a verifiably false statement as we know that Isabella would not have been in the room for the development of Wolverine as he would have been mentioned (or mentioned it himself) by this point. Yes, Isabella was working at Marvel- editing both Marvel UK titles and various black & white horror magazines among other duties- but that is a minor criticism in a somewhat larger argument where it involves Isabella.

What I find somewhat remarkable is that a blatantly ridiculous argument like “you weren’t there! you weren’t in the room!” works at ALL, in any capacity where history and chronicling history is involved. As fans who believe Stan Lee was the primary creator of the Marvel properties also were not “in the room“, then why doesn’t that argument work against them in such heated exchanges?

It’s because the overwhelming need for nostalgia as comfort in modern life trumps any sense of logic, rationalization and critical thought over anything that may be difficult, painful or disruptive to our coping mechanisms. Adult comic fans and certain comic professionals like Isabella are extremely complicit in this. To say nothing of the modern profitability of things connected to Lee (and now Thomas) where the Marvel Universe is involved- any and all association with the House of Ideas in the Sixties, Seventies and beyond at least gets you in the door of the middle ranked comic cons these days. Some people just don’t want to rock the boat. I get it.

Why Isabella is so surprising to pull such pitiful rationalizations of horrid behavior as “Some of the most revered comics creators have lied sometime. I’ve lied sometime, though I make an effort not to do that. It’s human nature. Pretending it’s not the case doesn’t change that one whit.” is simply because Isabella himself has been so famously outspoken over injustices and slights both real and perceived to both him and his career, and to other creators or causes, for literally decades.

If you look at the public venting of Isabella- whether in columns for The Comics Buyer’s Guide, his own long-running blog, his Facebook and Twitter accounts, and in multiple interviews- Isabella is bold and uncompromising to what I believe has been the detriment of his career. He has a proprietary view on characters he created and co-created that I have found admirable in an era where longtime readers often complain about a lack of consistent continuity, but has caused him to both call out and insult other comic writers for writing “his” characters in ways that he finds wrong.

He has also been extremely outspoken about people lying to him or about him within the industry. But not, you know- Roy Thomas. Or Stan Lee. (Just sayin’.)

• “You can choose to characterize his comments as something other than a lie, but you are just making excuses for his lying.” – Tony Isabella, Sept 9th, 2011

• “So, he lies and, because he’s been caught in so many lies, I find myself questioning everything he relates. Thus, he does himself the greatest disservice.” – Tony Isabella, Jan 24th, 2016

• “If I take more offense than some consider reasonable to Shooter’s lying about me, it’s because I know too well the adverse effects of such deceit. When I’m talking with industry pals, it’s a subject that comes up from time to time.
• Those adverse effects aren’t confined exclusive to the economic and employment results. There’s a pain that comes with knowing someone is lying about you and knowing they are doing it for, among other reasons, because they believe they can get away with it.” – Tony Isabella, Sept 9th, 2011

(It’s well known that Isabella has frequently complained about Jim Shooter, who is the target in the selected quotes shown here, but I should like to interject that Isabella also has spoken at length about being lied to by DC Editors, convention organizers, the fan press, etc.)

• “…here’s my take on that: “Were you in the room?” And if you weren’t in the room, you’re just speculating. I don’t care how knowledgeable you claim to be, I don’t care that “oh, I talked to Stan, he said this,” “I talked to Jack, and he said this,” you weren’t in the room, so you don’t know.” – Tony Isabella, Sept 2018 (who… wouldn’t know either, by his own logic)

So, besides being just plain hypocritical for suddenly caring about industry professionals who lie (who aren’t Jim Shooter), I find Tony Isabella’s entire psychological profile to be indicative of the flimsy and fragile personalities who become defensive to the point of insanity when they feel the need to suddenly defend Stan Lee, who doesn’t need defending.

Think about it like this. Take any famous figure, even one you’re not that familiar with outside of a general awareness, like I am honestly going to do in a moment. Go to someone who is more familiar with this figure, even a fan of their work.

If I went to someone who was very into the sport of professional basketball and said, “Michael Jordan isn’t really a good player”, I am confident that they would either laugh and tell me I didn’t know what I was talking about, they would affably try to engage me in a friendly debate about what constitutes a good player and/or which player did I prefer, or possibly try to explain basic fundamentals of that sport to me.

I do not expect them to suddenly tell me they would not tolerate Jordan bashing. I do not expect they would tell me that I do not need to build up a rival basketball player or give that player credit by taking credit away from Jordan. I do not expect them to go into a rant about how the NBA exists today because of Jordan, etc.

You could try it with any subject in any field and, admittedly, you might come across the one guy who scoffs and is outraged at what a philistine you are- but I believe the majority of people, when hearing someone criticized who is widely perceived to be a giant in that field- just won’t go to irrational lengths to not try to persuade you that this person really accomplished the things they are publicly credited for, but instead, to tell you that they will not tolerate any criticism or evidence to the contrary.

It’s completely ridiculous. We weren’t in the room one hundred years ago. Should we not continue to explore and teach the history of what happened in the Jazz Age? The people so reluctant to hear any and all criticism or serious debate over the creatorship of Marvel really think they can dismiss it with the logic that the people broaching the subject are invalidated because they weren’t present in 1961..?!

Where does this irrationality come from? Is it all just unhealthy nostalgia? Why is John Morrow allowed to discuss what he wasn’t present for then? Because he preserves the comforting tapestry of the Marvel Magic that fanboys simply won’t give up? Fuck that.

• “People display this bias when they select information that supports their views, ignoring contrary information, or when they interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing attitudes. The effect is strongest for desired outcomes, for emotionally charged issues, and for deeply entrenched beliefs.” – Wikipedia, ‘Confirmation Bias’

Tony Isabella suffers from the same zealotry that many other Marvelites suffer from, and when admiration turns to zealotry, rational thought will always vanish from the conversation. Beyond that, the ongoing defense of not being there simply needs to be abandoned as it falters in the face of any legitimate argument. It reminds me of Creationists defending their religious beliefs because, naturally, humans weren’t around to witness evolution:

• “The Creationists often like to complain that “nobody was around” to “see” evolution taking place over hundreds of millions of years, so it’s just an unproven story. But the fact that we weren’t around to witness past events doesn’t mean they didn’t take place, and it doesn’t mean we don’t have ways of figuring out what happened.

• Think about it: evolutionists figure out how life-forms repeatedly changed and diversified over time; astronomers and cosmologists figure out how galaxies and solar systems came into being billions of years ago and how they too change over time; historians and anthropologists figure out how humans organized their societies thousands or tens of thousands of years ago; molecular scientists and particle physicists figure out the characteristics of chemical bonds and the interactions of sub-atomic particles they cannot directly “see”; linguists figure out how current human languages evolved through a series of step-wise cultural modifications of much older languages which were spoken by people who have long ceased to exist.

• We weren’t there to directly “see” any of these changes happening, but we do have techniques which we can use to figure out a lot of what happened in the past.” – Ardea Skybreak, ‘The Science of Evolution and the Myth of Creation: Knowing What’s Real and Why It Matters‘, 2006

Tony Isabella, you are indeed guilty of lying- and it is continuing to lie to yourself. Quite simply, it’s because continuing to claim Lee as a “mentor” and continuing to believe Thomas is your friend is beneficial to your career. And partly it’s because that continued presence is apparently- and, yes, understandably- a comfort in your old age.

People within the comics industry should stop lying. It’s that simple. Worried about alienating the publisher that employs you? I get it. So do what literally millions of other workers do at their jobs and simply don’t say anything at all about it. If you are pressed, use your apparent creativity to not commit to a continuing falsehood. There, problem solved.

• “I want to keep my job…” – Francis Manapul, asked about Batman co-creator Bill Finger at a WonderCon panel, April 17th, 2014

I get that the collective cultural identity in fandom is shaped around a sense of sentimental comfort that informs the overall community. But it’s also hindered the growth of that community and stunted any progressive, healthy development.

We have a regurgitating cesspool of blind consumers, devoted to building the fortunes and padding the pockets of corporate trademark owners who couldn’t care less about their icons or figureheads or even know who created what. Creators are compromised or upset if you rock the boat and force them to face it; readers are entitled and complain incessantly while putting former fans turned pros onto undeserving pedestals. Worst of all, you can’t even engage in a serious discussion about documented history and recorded statements without someone pointing out, aghast, that you weren’t even there.

This. This is what you’ve got. A subculture of grown adults wearing cargo shorts and t-shirts featuring pop culture characters originally created for children who will argue the trajectory of how motion pictures from a former film company should fit into the continuity of the current film company’s motion pictures that they used to like.

What does it take to make all of these self-deluded fuckheads grow up already?

~with thanks to Tony Isabella, Michael Hill, and every single Jim Shooter editorial decision EVER~