“And I Knew That Roy Was The Second Wave Guy…”- an Interview with the Living Legend, John Cimino

I’ve got to start by sharing what a gratifying experience it was to see the tremendous response from fans and industry professionals alike when it came to our interview with the great Clair Noto. Even esteemed and established comic journalists gave credit for the journalistic qualities of that conversation, and the discussions it provoked within the greater comics community.

So, imagine my sense of tangible disappointment to follow up that piece of journalistic integrity with… an interview with Roy Thomas’s manager, John Cimino.

I recognize that I’ve come off as having some fun mocking the Mego Stretch, and some people might think I’ve got a personal agenda. After all, Cimino is ripe for parody and may seem like “low hanging fruit”, an easy target. But I do believe that with Thomas’s retroactive credit-grabbing and reputation-inflating actions of the last few years, examining both the game plan and motivations of him and his partner here are increasingly valid, and each piece on their actions helps to paint an overall picture of their shameless, vile corruption and greed.

When I caught up with the interview, I was forced to examine my own feelings about John Cimino and be completely honest. There’s a part where he states that the real reason there is anything “controversial” about him is because he’s successful, which I immediately found hilarious- before pausing, and having enough self-awareness to recognize that maybe that’s true, and my own personal opinion of his past actions was prohibiting me from being fair and balanced.

So, allow me to also stress then that it is not for me to say whether or not Cimino is disliked due to his success in the convention circuit and beyond. I have spoken to a few perennials on the convention circuit- I mean vendors/retailers- who had conflicted feelings about Cimino but also admitted he was a “nice guy”, and so forth- so I am going to take him at his word, even if I believe his inflated sense of self is distorting any capacity to look objectively of how he might come off.

Allow me to also stress the why I remain annoyed with Cimino, as well as using it as a reminder to every other single person that doesn’t know: John Cimino stalked and ambushed an elderly Steve Ditko– and then boasted about it.

Regardless of how one feels about Ditko or not, he earned his right to shun any attention and his wish for privacy was well known amongst comic book fanatics, at the very least. Cimino and Hallock’s braggadocio over this still hasn’t been called out by the comic professionals that routinely set up at Hallock’s conventions- and they should be asked why they haven’t spoken up in defense of Ditko, the way many of them rush to rationalize any single time Stan Lee is criticized.

Anyway. That’s why I’m down on Cimino, and to my knowledge, he’s never explained or apologized for his part in disrespecting a figure as significant as Ditko. Though he also shouldn’t disrespect a janitor, just saying.

Anyway. John Cimino was interviewed on “The Heroic Voice”, a YouTube/Podcast hosted by Dennis Mallonee of Heroic Publishing, the indie outfit that has published such exercises in originality from Roy Thomas like Captain Thunder and Blue Bolt and Alter Ego (the comic book version).

Episode 48 featured Roy Thomas’s manager and best friend with an episode titled “John Cimino, agent and publicist on controversies around Stan Lee and Roy Thomas” and was uploaded on May 3rd, 2025.

Mallonee starts by asking Cimino to explain the recent controversy (which Mallonee claims he was unaware of) involving both Wolverine and Stan Lee and “why people are throwing brickbats at you.”

• 2:03: “I think the first thing about my- you know, I get a little bit of controversy is because uh, I’m actually pretty successful. And uh, I have a big mouth- let’s just say I’m a guy from Boston, I don’t shy away from controversy- if somebody says something about me, I’m gonna come back and retaliate and say something about them.”

• 2:44: “I’ve always been like, uh, I would say- a little bit controversial because, once again, I got pretty successful and a lot of the people I associate with, I’m good friends with, best friends with and I love, you know, dearly, I have a lot of friends in this industry- pretty big names as you know, Roy Thomas, Gerry Conway and now Jon Bolerjack whose also putting out that Stan Lee biography that uh, he’s getting a little bit of heat now because a lot of people don’t understand…”

I rather enjoy that Cimino, perhaps unintentionally, loops in Jon Bolerjack at the end of his list of “pretty big names” that he’s close friends with. I also think Cimino is projecting that people are outraged simply because HE is best friends with someone like Roy Thomas and they are not.

• 5:38: “A little while later, I asked him (Jon Bolerjack), because I started knowing this industry- and I said, “Are we the two most honest people in this industry? Because there’s a lot of shysters out here and it’s kinda hard to deal with!” ‘Cause you deal with shady promoters, shady agents, shady creators, it can get pretty… the good people start narrowing down in all that stuff.”

Wow. There’s nothing I can interject here to properly convey the sense of obtuseness Cimino displays by contemplating that he and Bolerjack are the “most honest” people in an industry that they are both on the periphery of, and, you know, not actually in. I do believe Cimino genuinely loves Roy Thomas and will be understandably hurt when Thomas inevitably passes way- but, outside of what Thomas leaves him, I also believe Cimino will be in for a rude awakening when that occurs, since he’ll then see how many people in the comic book industry have just been tolerating him.

Mallonee points out that shady people were Stan Lee’s problem at the end of his life.

• 6:38: “And these guys have incredible targets on their back. And I’ll tell you this, without a doubt- because once he (Stan Lee) died, I said to Roy- ‘Roy, I’m gonna watch out harder for you than I ever have, because more people are gonna start aiming their spears and all that stuff, TO Roy, and they HAVE.”

• “And once again, you have that ‘Stan/Roy‘, they’re just making this magic… they don’t understand how much it impacted people like us that, like, are gonna do anything for them or anything to get their attention…”

Emphasis mine. Also, did Steve Ditko have a target on his back? Just asking.

• 8:03: “He don’t need money, believe me! Listen, I’m gonna be honest with you- he made me, I’m a Hispanic guy from Dorchester, Boston- I’m from the projects, and I’ll tell you this… I do very well in life, thank you, thanks to Roy and all that stuff…”

I don’t think anyone should begrudge Cimino for doing well in life. I am also someone that came out of an inner-city area seeped in poverty and I want all people from humble origins to succeed. I do think exaggerating and retconning someone’s career and accomplishments and relationships is pretty dishonest, though. If good marketing.

• 8:39: “Roy is like in Stan’s shoes. He doesn’t have to be out here, he doesn’t need money and all this stuff. He loves to be out there, he loves to be with the fans and he loves to celebrate this industry. But- he needs to be compensated because of WHO he is. We’re like- that’s what I’m saying, he has earned that right, to have that. So, we’re NOT cheap.. we go all over the world, he’s wanted all over the world. Second to NOBODY… that demand for him is incredible. And, but like I said, he’s not cheap. I mean, he’s deserved his place at the head of the table now.”

• “And he’s earned that right- sixty years in comics, creating these crazy characters, making these stories that made us all happy and inspired the world… I mean, he deserves that. So don’t get me wrong, we are a business. But he’s also here for the love of it and that’s what I love of him.”

I will always give credit where it is due, and Cimino did succeed in his shrewd public makeover of Thomas as Stan Lee’s disciple, Stan Lee’s heir, the 2nd Editor-in-Chief of Marvel during a historic period (even if Thomas was ineffectual and uncommitted to the role), and playing up and exaggerating Thomas’s role in “creating” a lot of ‘crazy’ characters for Marvel. Cimino banked on the general lack of knowledge and lack of curiosity in the blind consumerist geek community- and he was, for the most part, correct.

Lee was a perennial on the convention circuit in the last twenty years of his life, which coincided with comic/pop-culture conventions blooming and evolving to true industry showcases and ceremonial visits for growing numbers of the converted. Cimino recognized, if you can’t have Stan, what would be the next best thing…? Thomas just needed a little, shall we say, spit and polish for his public and professional makeover.

• 9:32: (Mallonee): “Now… explain to me and explain for the benefit of people watching this, what exactly it is that you do for Roy Thomas and Gerry Conway?”
• 9:41: “Oh, basically I’m their buddy. No, I- first off, I’ve been friends with Roy for over ten years, he is my best friend in the whole world. Me and him, we go, we have been through thick and think and like, Roy is legit my best friend. We go out, we have good times, we go to dinner, all this stuff…”

I mean, if they weren’t such awful people, it’d be almost sweet to see how many times Cimino is moved to mention that he and Roy Thomas are BEST FRIENDS FOREVER. *slobber*

• 11:14: “Finally, a promoter came up to me and he goes, “Hey, you know Roy Thomas?” He goes, “You think he could come to my show?” So, I asked Roy, he trusted me. I bring him to a show… he made an incredible, incredible amount of money. And then he looks at me, he goes, “You think we can do this again?” And I go, “Absolutely.” And from there on, the universe has opened itself up to me…”

• 11:36: “But the thing is, I have a great awareness of this business because I’ve been a comic fan since I was three. And the thing is, I knew Roy was gonna start hitting because Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, Ditko, all those heroes started hitting… those were the first heroes. You know, the movies start coming out and all that. And I knew that Roy was the second wave guy with a bunch of characters that are gonna start hitting the mainstream… and, sure enough, as I was kind of bringing Roy up, we hit it and boom, it exploded because all his characters started coming out… and then that just made everything better.”

I’ve been giving Cimino for having foresight to recognize this was a possibility in the convention circuit but suddenly just realized, is it possible that no one else considered grooming Roy Thomas as a convention favorite simply because promoting him based on his own actual merits wouldn’t be as lucrative?

• “And what I did, see, Roy Thomas- this was Roy’s mistake. Roy is a genius, right? But he’s a genius writer. He doesn’t know much about promoting and all that stuff. The thing I love about Roy, he’s such a 100% honest guy… and he’s incredibly loyal. So, he always loved to give people their credit. That’s why he always went to bat for the, you know, the Golden Age artists and all that stuff… but he always forgot about himself. He was so modest.”

Uh.

Mallonee brings up “The Wolverine situation” before the 13-minute mark.

• 12:54: “The first time you ever see that in print back in 1982 like of anything about the creation of Wolverine… they’re talking to ROY and he’s saying the same thing he’s said for the last 50 years!”

That is not literally true whatsoever and, again, the Roy camp continues to focus on one interview with Peter Sanderson that Thomas did for the X-Men Companion because it bolsters their claims in the present. To take nothing away from that specific interview, you need to consider every interview when it comes to this matter, since Thomas has contradicted his 1982 statements several times.

• 13:54: “There’s all this documented history but as you know, the internet is not interested in documented history. They’re only interested in what happens today. They don’t care what happened ten years ago, five years ago. I’ve seen so many podcasts trashing me and Roy saying there is no history available ever saying anything, and I’m like… and people believe this.”

The entire point of Four Color Sinners is the documented history, I assure you.

• 14:29: “All people have to do because they’re so lazy and arrogant, all they have to do is go back in time and all this stuff is there. Hell, I interviewed Roy in 2014 and Len Wein together for a BACK ISSUE article on Wolverine and Wolverine- and I didn’t even know Roy then, this is just all correspondence- Roy tells me the exact same thing. Len gives me his say and that’s it. Len Wein wasn’t complaining what Roy Thomas said and he said all the same thing. But yet, that doesn’t matter…”

The irony of Cimino calling anyone else arrogant is bemusing. Secondly, it isn’t about Roy’s claims of giving Len Wein a name and a nationality that people have really contested or pushed back against. It is retroactively deciding that YOUR name should come first, that YOU created it. That shit is disgusting.

Mallonee says Thomas created the character, but Len Wein “developed it” so let’s give Len some credit and Cimino seems to bristle a bit at this:

• 15:29: “Yeah, but- but, but- yes. It went to- it went to Roy, then it went to John, then it went to Herb and Len. Yes, they all are the co-creators of Wolverine. And Roy always advocated for Herb Trimpe, I don’t know if you know that because for a long time they never even considered because he just drew the character in the comic, and he took the actual sketch and he put that on in the last panel in #180…”

You know, it’s seriously amazing to me that the Roy camp keeps boasting and patting themselves on the back for including Herb Trimpe on the list of co-creators, simply because he was the first artist to draw Wolverine. I personally adore Trimpe, but I wouldn’t say drawing a character in a story whose design and appearance were already drawn out and designed by another artist in advance would constitute “creating” at all.

Also, if this is the logic they follow as to who should be regarded as a “co-creator”, what does that open up for other freelancers at Marvel that merely “drew the stories” that sprung from the head of such visionaries as Stan and Roy? Anybody? These guys are going to diminish Kirby when it comes to his work with Stan Lee, but Herb Trimpe is a co-creator of Wolverine? What the fuck?

• 16:09: “But then you have a lot of- you know, I can’t mention names and all that stuff, but a lot of people had other agendas. And I can’t tell you this because I can’t say this publicly, but let’s just say there’s a lot of bad apples with a lot of bad intentions and I can’t- once again, I know what’s going on, and these other people know the truth too… but Roy was always going to get that co-creatorship because Marvel will always honor… and they know his contributions. But there’s bad apples out there and uh, that have had a big voice against this. And if you know what goes on behind the scenes like I do– I know what their real intentions are and they’re not good. And let’s just say it isn’t about the copyright. Excuse me, it isn’t about like Roy getting his co-creatorship and all that stuff… there’s a lot more involved to that. And so I can’t say much on that, but let’s just say Roy’s a good egg in this.”

Just remember, John Cimino knows a lot. He just can’t tell you. John Cimino is a mover and shaker. He just can’t prove it.

JC keeps referencing anecdotes he can’t reveal and secret information that Gerry Conway and Roy Thomas tell him. Thrilling. Also, police officers and priests come up to Roy Thomas in awe and a couple asked Roy Thomas to bless them. I guess I don’t doubt that, but it’s indicative of how nauseating pop culture consumerist that fans are.

Cimino references people accusing him of being “money-hungry” and I’d like to point out that Four Color Sinners at least has never accused Cimino of trying to fleece Roy purely for financial reasons, so he can’t be referencing me.

There’s a great moment when Mallonee asks Cimino about branching out past comic conventions into other media- meaning trying to get Roy-centric properties into development and Cimino is confused, and references Roy’s cameo on the Netflix Daredevil series before Mallonee elaborates further.

Cimino- who has boasted about his intellectual property knowledge– reminds him he basically just knows comic conventions. Cimino then mentions all the big-name movie directors that routinely contact him and he- surprise- “can’t name any names.”

• 23:46: “And I’m a guy that protects these guys and I- believe me, I do not take kindly when anyone disrespects these guys. Because I do not keep my mouth shut and I make sure that they know who they’re talking to and who these guys are. I mean, they’ve built- this industry is built on their backs.”

STEVE DITKO, MOTHERFUCKER. AND THE INDUSTRY WAS NOT BUILT ON THE BACKS OF ROY FUCKING THOMAS AND GERRY CONWAY!

Mallonee says ‘Werewolf by Night‘ was Roy’s idea. Actually, Roy admitted he just ripped off the Michael Landon film “I Was a Teenage Werewolf” and that Stan demanded that Roy name the title after a 1950s’ Atlas story that Lee had written. Great idea Roy.

Cimino and Mallonee are upset that the werewolf was portrayed by a Hispanic actor and that Marvel won’t recast Captain America with a new actor and that the Falcon should have stayed the Falcon. Yep.

• 28:53: “I’m very well known and I have a lot of friends in high places and stuff. And I get a lot of push back because I’m the guy they gotta deal with to get to Roy Thomas.”

I know- for a fact– for a FACT- that several people at TwoMorrows– that several people at Marvel– that several people at Reed Exhibitions– that several people involved with FanExpo– that several retailers who exhibit at these shows- all TOLERATE JOHN CIMINO to appease Roy Thomas. It’s a fact, jack!

• 30:38: “I should be staying in the background- the truth is, Roy wants me in the front with him. Roy loves when I’m with him because we’re best friends.”
• 31:10: “I’m the boy to ‘The Boy’!”

• 32:08: “You know, I don’t like to pat myself on the back, but I’ve done a lot of innovative things and Marvel even took an idea from me and now other creators are using it and uh- it was a funny thing, I can’t say, you know I’ve gotta still play the game…”

In conclusion, I watched and transcribed that so that you didn’t have to. No, no need to thank me dear readers, I do this because I care. And it won’t surprise anyone who toiled through this to learn that Cimino is indeed a buffoon, a misguided and deluded journeyman who has, admirably at times it must be said, infused himself with unjustified self-esteem throughout life just to get to his current pinnacle of being a live-in manager to an elderly credit thief and fan-fiction writer. (Because, in reality, that’s all Thomas has ever been.)

These are the people that generate the cesspool and keep it filled with likeminded serpents; these are the people that generate their own mythology and project onto it just to keep the circus running. They are enabled by the faithful who want to feel connected, who desperately want to believe in the magic of nostalgia which sustains their grimmer adulthood.

It’s a circle which keeps repeating through the eras, but a circle which needs to be confronted and called out. Only then can the adapters stop leeching off the work of others. In the meantime? I’m glad John Cimino and Roy Thomas are best friends who do everything together. Why, I’m about to pen a series of “Bobsey Twins”-esque adventure novels starring the two any moment now!

(With thanks to Evelyn Richardson, Michael Hill, and especially to Dennis Mallonee, misguided as he may be, and the dozen or so people who have confided to me at conventions that Cimino is the most tolerated man in the convention circuit. And thanks to the regular readers of FCS, I promise more substantial articles are forthcoming!)